Even though I've stopped posting silly congratulations every time my favourite celebrity or character has a birthday, I just could not miss the birthday of Ms. Kiriya. And I kinda aimed to post this translations on the 2nd, but it ended up being more difficult longer than I expected, so it took me more time to finish. Still it may have some mistakes or look untidy at times, but I hope it's readable. Minor details like schedule and photo caps are not translated.
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Interview with ‘La Mancha ladies’ – Hiromu Kiriya and Emma Miyazawa Lafleur, from the musical ‘Man of La Mancha’
The new musical ‘Man of La Mancha’ started in Theatre Brava in Osaka.
This year’s new cast for the play has attracted a lot of attention, not without these two ladies who adorned the new version with their performance. We had a chance to talk with Hiromu Kiriya, who played Aldonza, and Emma Miyazawa Lafleur, who played Antonia.
*Stage photos and interview touch upon the play contents, those who wish to watch the play without knowing anything please beware of spoilers*
– ‘Man of La Mancha’ has started! First of all, please tell us about your feelings after the premiere.
Kiriya
When the first performance ended, I felt very excited and thought ‘so, it has finally started!’
The first day is always a very special occasion, I had adrenalin rush, I felt elevated, and I realised once again that my task is to make these high spirits last and to keep my concentration till the last day.
Also, we’re newbies here (laughs). When we start performing on stage, every day brings something new and different from the rehearsal. We need to reflect upon ourselves, and discover new things, and develop ourselves again and again to make our acting even deeper. Okay, next is your turn, Emma!
Miyazawa
On the first day I felt a little relieved, but I also realised how important it is to keep doing my best.
Of course we practiced a lot during rehearsals, but the real setting, stage with a slight tilt, lighting, costumes… I felt that I could not cope with all these things perfectly. I wondered if even after all that rehearsing, being on a real stage can be so different.
However, at the same time I became fully aware of how I want to show my character that has been passed down to me from so many previous generations, which is a very important thing for me. I felt like I finally became able to grasp that freedom that is necessary to make a character ‘mine’. Just like Ms. Kiriya said, every day is full of reflection and discoveries.
– Ms. Kiriya just mentioned that you two are ‘newbies’, which makes you kind of ‘colleagues’ who joined the ‘La Mancha family’ this year.
Kiriya
Actually the difference in our age is very big, but she’s such a serious young woman that I don’t feel any generation gap at all! (laughs)
We chatted with her from the very start… oh, I should have said ‘we had a pleasant conversation’.
Miyazawa
No, no, it’s me who should… (laughs) Actually, when I came to the rehearsal, Ms. Kiriya had been practicng for around one week already, so I just stuck to her like a bur and learned a lot of things from her.
Kiriya
Yes, there were a lot of things we did not know when we first came, but there are so few women in the ‘La Mancha’ cast that our colleagues who had been in the play longer said: ‘We are few, but let’s unite and do our best!’ and greeted us very warmly, with a welcome atmosphere, and the female cast became very strongly united.
– And now let’s hear about ‘The La Mancha ladies’!
Miyazawa
I remember how Kohko (Kohko Arai who played the maid) said ‘All ladies in La Mancha are manly!’
Kiriya
That’s right, they are really like men! (laughs) A lot of characters are very manful. Maybe they just can’t exist among those ruffians if they aren’t like that, they have to be strong enough to be on par with them.
Miyazawa
And there is not a single scene where there would be only females, I guess it’s female rather than make characters who add spice to the story and make it more interesting. That is why inevitably people with strong personalities gather in this performance.
Kiriya
And when those ‘ruffians’ deal with such ladies, they become so caring, complete opposite to what they are usually! (laughs) I just can’t help loving this personality gap!
Miyazawa
It’s true, everybody is so caring! (laughs)
– It feels like I begin to see what ‘The La Mancha family’ is like. (laughs)
When we speak of the central figure in the play, of course it’s him! Mr. Koshiro Matsumoto.
Kiriya
We’re close like members of a theatrical troupe. It’s my third year after I graduated from Takarazuka, and Emma has been in this profession for 2 years, so how should I put it, it has not been long since we entered this world, at least it feels like something new.
– But Ms. Kiriya had a brilliant career of a Top Star previously [in Takarazuka]
Kiriya
Oh, I just wanted to pretend I’m a rookie too! (laughs) But you see, I can say without any doubt it’s the first time I see such a serious company.
Mr. Matsumoto is in the top of our pyramid, and everybody down to the ensemble really faces the same direction. What I said about ourselves, ‘constant reflection and discoveries’, applies to Mr. Koshiro, too, he is the best example of that.
As I myself have been in such a troupe previously, it feels nostalgic and very pleasant. I do think there aren’t many companies where everybody is so united like here. From this prospective, I really think we are able to present a very precious artwork to our audience.
Miyazawa
What makes one feel that he’s in a troupe, is that somebody from the ensemble can become a muleteer later, so one inherits his role from another person. During our harsh rehearsals we are all comrades, and we are all competitors, and I feel that all of us are brought together by Mr. Koshiro.
Even with my short history of performing I can understand that now I am able to experience something that is not easily available for every actor.
– The opportunity to inherit something precious is reverberating with the ‘La Mancha’ story, right?
Kiriya
My story really resembles the story of my character, at least I can say I entered the performance in confusion and gradually became more refined. I felt the same process unfolding during the rehearsals.
– Mr. Koshiro Matsumoto is not only the main performer but also the director of the play. Tell us more about him, please.
Miyazawa
I remember one day Mr. Koshiro was holding an English version of the libretto and asked me, ‘Emma, do you know what this means in English?’ Even though there would be nothing strange if the role that I have rehearsed for more than 1200 times became so stiff that I could say ‘it should be like this and like this only’, he still draws our attention to subtle nuances in the script and makes us change our style. I can say I was impressed by his flexibility.
Kiriya
I cannot but agree. Mr. Koshiro loves the play so dearly and has met and parted with so many people in his life of a performer, he is a personification of the ‘Man of La Mancha’. We cannot possibly compete with him no matter how we try. And still he is very open-minded and treats even newbies like us kindly, and helps us to cope with our naïve problems.
– Please tell us about your roles.
Kiriya
There are a lot of scenes where we face each other one-on-one with Mr. Koshiro, and though I knew from the start I wouldn’t be able to be on par with him, my initial feelings were ‘can I really stand here next to him?’, ‘do I really count as his equal?’ and so on.
Miyazawa
As I have watched a lot of scenes from aside during the rehearsals, I’d like to mention (laughs) that Ms. Kiriya had been really impressive from the very start! So cool!
Your every movement was so beautiful, I know it’s not ‘mie’ pose, but surely it’s impossible to copy. I was so impressed that I literally wanted to applaud in excitement.
Kiriya
But you know, there was some inner conflict within me, still (laughs).
And I wouldn’t be happy if I were only told that I was cool…
I want people to say ‘why, she was sexy!’ too! (laughs)
Well, even if I say that, Aldonza would be just too pitiful if she were weak, living among those muleteers.
I personally wanted to show her as a woman who lives to the fullest in those circumstances.
Miyazawa
That’s true. Even though she lived in poor conditions, we don’t want her to be just poor. I don’t know if our image was influenced too much by the movie with Sophia Loren, but even though she uses her (female) sexiness as her weapon, her appeal is not in that! Cervantes, Don Quixote can see that.
The Aldonza played by Ms. Kiriya was showing a glimpse of Dulcinea right from the start!
That’s why when Don Quixote addresses her as ‘Dulcinea’, you can understand what he is speaking about.
And then there are those muleteers who don’t see that. Of course, their life is not very easy, too, but the image of a person that they see and the image that Don Quixote sees are very distinct and that’s so wonderful!
Oh, I am sorry, I became a little heated (laughs).
And also, Ms. Kiriya, your sexy parts were sexy enough!
Kiriya
Oh thank you, you’re so considerate (laughs).
Your character, Antonia, is also very difficult, right?
Miyazawa
She is a curious character. During the rehearsals I was constantly thinking, how should I play Antonia in a way that would be best for the performance?
During the workshops I tried to act as if Antonia, the maid and padre were extremely good people and Carrasco the villain, and next time I tried to act the opposite. And then I realised that when I acted as a good person my acting was very questionable, but when I acted as a bad person I was simply doing whatever I wanted straightforwardly.
Of course the setting of the workshops is an extreme thing, but when I tried to perform in different ways like that, I got a strong feeling that while for Don Quixote Antonia is a villain, she is just trying to survive doing whatever she can.
That’s why I understood that the secret is not to centre on her affections and make Antonia a ‘vicious woman’, but to keep the important balance. With these feelings I was rehearsing every day.
Kiriya
I totally agree. For a woman the only means to survive at that time was to marry a man from a noble family so that she could become a noble woman. If it were Aldonza, she would probably earn for living with hard labour and selling her body, there was no other way for her, and I think others were, too, surviving by clinging to something.
And in such circumstances it’s only natural that relatives would be troubled having such a free-spirited uncle. At first I imagined Antonia to be a role of a ‘noble young girl’, but then when I saw Emma portraying Antonia, she was a level-headed girl saying what she wants straightforwardly, and I couldn’t help sympathising with her: ‘of course she would be bothered by such an uncle’.
So, as for what that ‘something’ everybody clings to is, Cervantes has written about it in his play within a play, in the ‘Man of La Mancha’.
Don Quixote once says: ‘If you just compromise with the world you live in, what will you get?’ However, you can’t live in the real world without compromising anything. There is such a conflict. And what’s appealing in this story is that it does not simply portray the characters as ‘good’ or ‘bad’, but just shows how every of them tries to live in their own circumstances.
Miyazawa
If you watch from the start and then watch about the journey of Don Quixote, you’d be impressed and inspired, but as Antonia I can’t really…
Kiriya
Pursuing your dream freely – of course it’s a wonderful way of life, but… You can’t help thinking about that ‘but’, right?
Miyazawa
Yes! You can’t just search for new adventures every day! That’s what she ends up thinking.
She loves him as her relative, but she can’t help thinking ‘I have my own life, too, you know’.
And when Quixano finally returns home and wants to spend his time peacefully, a strange woman appears before him and makes him remember it all. He doesn’t want to hear about it, but he can’t ignore the fact that something outstanding happens in front of his eyes, there’s nothing else to say.
If one’s family does not support him in pursuing his dream, it must be so painful that I cannot endure imagining it really.
Kiriya
That’s right! Even though this story is about ‘endless dreams’, it does not fail to depict reality very well, too.
In the end of this play the characters go back to their reality, which equals imprisonment, and Cervantes leaves them, so what awaits them in the future? They will stay in prison just like before. When I saw it, I felt like, you know… it’s very cruel.
Maybe the audience, too, will be moved by the story of the man of La Mancha and leave the theatre full with emotions, but the next day they would have to go to work etc.
Of course they would receive energy for living from that play, but they would have to face reality, too. And still, I think something may change inside them, even if just a little. This is surely a play that leaves a strong aftertaste.
Miyazawa
And that’s probably what makes this play different from others. It does not end with the characters escaping from reality, it has something dark in it, and that leaves a very strong impression.
Kiriya
And also, Emma, your character appears on the stage only at some moments, don’t you feel anxious about that?
Miyazawa
I do! There is one highlight scene when I sing, at least it’s an important scene for Antonia, and it comes in the first half of the play, but until that moment I feel extremely anxious! (laughs) And when it ends, I feel a bit relieved…
Though I feel relieved in the same way during our rehearsals, they always take place in front of my eyes, so I can see the rest of the play and share the same atmosphere with those who are engaged in it, but in the real performance [when the scene ends] we go backstage. And from there we must return to the stage where Mr. Koshiro and Ms. Kiriya have created a very tense atmosphere. Being able to enter the stage without breaking that atmosphere, concentrated and keeping the necessary spirit, is a skill that’s difficult to develop. It’s a challenge for me to mobilise myself when needed and to sense the mood, so for me it’s both hard and pleasant to take part in the performance every day.
– It may be a slightly difficult question to answer right away, but what would be your favourite line in ‘Man of La Mancha’, which is a source of many great lines to quote?
*short silence*
Kiriya
Well, I wouldn’t say it’s a phrase I particularly like or dislike, but there is one very difficult phrase that I fight with every day: ‘My name is Dulcinea’, my last words in the play.
Before that I say several times: ‘would you look at me as I really am’, that’s an important thing to notice. And when Aldonza utters ‘My name is Dulcinea’ in the end of the play, if you view her from aside, it’s really astonishing. It’s very difficult to say that phrase with appropriate energy, and in order to pronounce it properly I must live as Aldonza before that with all my might.
There isn’t any established way to say it and there’s no end to it, probably I will think over that phrase until the very closing night.
Emma, how about you?
Miyazawa
It may be a very plain choice, but I’d pick ‘Facts are the enemy of truth’.
It’s a scene where everybody holds their breath. And from that point, the narration of the play changes, too. The spectators may think ‘I was sure he was just a strange old guy, but maybe I could listen to what he says?’, and become aware that there are different ways to view things. After watching the play one realises that it’s not the most important thing to pursue only what is right in front of his eyes.
What’s even more interesting for me in this play, that line alone is pronounced very distinctly. In truth, maybe Alonso Quixana is not as mad as everybody thinks, maybe he’s even Cervantes himself. In other words, it’s not Quixana (Quixote) confronting Carrasco, but Cervantes confronting the prisoners.
And while I am thinking about that, he starts to say something about the golden helmet of Mambrino.
And there’s the scene with ‘nobody but you sees it!’ (laughs)
Kiriya
When we saw this scene for the first time, we all talked about how wonderful it was.
Unexpected to themselves, the muleteers start singing with him, or start crying because of emotional movement. It’s a very funny scene, but everybody starts to follow Don Quixote before they even know it. It is a wonderful and interesting point about this play.
Miyazawa
It's not what you say, but how you say it, right? I thought that it must be how charismatic people get others involved in their adventures.
Kiriya
Also, Don Quixote gets a dirty cloth from Aldonza as a memento of his lady Dulcinea, and in the scene with the helmet of Mambrino he attaches it to his helmet to mark it.
Everybody says it smells, but Don Quixote at first says ‘what a wonderful aroma!’
Has his sense of smell gone bad, or does he feel that the smell is pleasant because he adores his lady so much? Which one is true? It’s a scene that only gets more interesting the more you watch it.
Miyazawa
Yes, that’s what makes the play so interesting because you discover it when you see it for the second or for the third time.
– You seem to love this play even as spectators, not only as actresses taking part in it!
Kiriya
Speaking about the audience, after Aldonza is violated by muleteers, she sings a song expressing her pain, and there are times when she receives a lot of applause and when she does not. I myself always end up thinking ‘you needn’t really to applaud that much!’ (laughs), because within the story it’s a very shocking development that makes you say ‘what?!’.
Miyazawa
That’s because you would want to applaud the person who sings, but you cannot applaud what occurred. There are times when people applaud and when they don’t, but I feel I can understand the feelings of both.
Kiriya
That’s right, it’s not like one of those reactions is right and the other isn’t, it’s just that I feel the one when the audience is taken aback by what happens is even more ‘real’ [than when they applaud]. Both of them are possible, and the atmosphere is completely different in these two situations.
Miyazawa
Sometimes I think ‘today’s audience is unusually silent’, but then at the curtain call they start applauding vigorously, or even give us a standing ovation.
Then I understand that they have just been deeply immersed into the story.
Kiriya
This story is a play within a play, so everyone who watches it is a prisoner, and everyone listens to the Cervantes’s story. When the story goes from the play within a play back to reality (which equals prison) the audience may relax, and the atmosphere in the hall changes suddenly. That’s what I understood after the curtain went up.
It’s a thing Mr. Koshiro was always saying, too, but now I understand myself that the play is complete only when it has spectators.
– So, please tell us again what the appeal of 'Man of La Mancha' is as you see it, being members of the 'La Mancha family'.
Kiriya
I know it must sound strange because I'm one of the actors here, but this performance is well done. It’s so good that I want to see it from a seat in the audience. (laughs)
Miyazawa
That’s true! I felt the same way during rehearsals, and even though I must confess I'm not the type who watches the same scene again and again, it’s interesting to watch 'La Mancha’ many times. Now I feel like the two of us are promoting the play here (laughs), but sometimes I make discoveries like ‘so that's what it means!' or 'today the dialogue's timing is different!'.
Kiriya
Of course there is the appeal of this play that has been staged so many times, but I feel deeply that it's also important that it is still changing. Our ‘naïve problems’ of actresses who have just joined the company are welcome here. They tell us not to hesitate to express our vision so that they could think over things that have become natural for them since they have been acting in this play for such a long time, and so that they could bring something new into it. It’s praiseworthy that their stance is to make the performance even better with the help of the new cast that they are having now, at this moment.
Miyazawa
Yes, it’s so great! The troupe of 'La Mancha’ is great because it can boast both long history and flexibility, because it accepts different points of view.
– And at last, please leave a message for fans of ‘Man of La Mancha’ and for those who haven’t seen it yet.
Miyazawa
I have heard opinions that ‘La Mancha’ is difficult, but the truth is, its story is very simple.
When you hear such words as ‘medieval Spain', 'wandering knight', ‘Inquisition’, you may think for a moment that you’ll have trouble with understanding the contents, but in this play the story moves forward without fixating too much on such matters. If you hesitate whether to watch this play or not because it seems difficult, then rest assured, you can enjoy it without any worries.
Kiriya
This work describes different people and their way of living, being based on an old book that has been recognised as one of the greatest literary works. We are new to this play, but I feel great meaning in the fact that I have been able to become a part of it. I feel that my spirit of a performer has been tempered in ‘La Mancha’, so I want to keep acting with pride, and the source of such determination is the presence of Cervantes, of Mr. Koshiro.
Miyazawa
When he is with you on the stage, nobody can be lazy in his acting, right?
Leaving the question whether he does it well or not aside, everybody wants to become even better and rise on the same high level, nobody would want to drag down his partner.
Kiriya
And in this manner our performance will develop up until the closing night, so I’d be happy if you come to watch it, maybe even several times.
– Thank you very much! Now the next performance seems even more interesting and attractive.
Mss. Kiriya and Emma let us speak with them even though they were tired after their first performance, and the interview progressed very lively.
Having their own opinions and loving the play deeply, they became even more eager to talk when we touched upon the subject of the play, the cast and the roles of their respective characters.
We can surely look forward to their future projects, which will be even more interesting now that they have taken part in such a play as ‘Man of La Mancha'.
